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Questions regarding increases

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13 comments

  • plasmatopia

    Hi mark

    I am by no means an expert, but I have been through a similar thought process to yours, and I can tell you what I have learned by experimenting on the Kniterate.

    1. It is actually not true that you cannot knit and tuck on a single carriage pass.  But it is true that you cannot knit and tuck on the same bed in a single carriage pass.  You can knit on one bed and tuck on the other, though.  By alternating stitches between front and back beds, for example knitting all the front bed stitches and tucking all the back bed stitches, you can create a cardigan stitch aka brioche stitch.
    2. At the risk of getting called out for bad behavior, I can report that it is possible to get knits and tucks on the same knitted row/same bed.  For example, I can do knit stitches on the front bed halfway across the row, and then do tucks the rest of the way across by putting them on a subsequent row in the design app, so it is effectively a new carriage pass.  There is a trick involved which I'd be happy to explain.
    3. Gerard Rubio has reported that the "split" stitch will be forthcoming on the Kniterate.  Perhaps in a firmware update?  This capability would completely address the increase issue, and would open up a lot of new possibilities with textures.
    4. It is true that there is no explicit control of carriage direction, but there are some workarounds to bending it to your will.  For example, when you are doing transfers, you can divide them up into either an even number or odd number of rows in the design app.  Choosing odd or even in many cases will affect carriage direction for the subsequent knit row.  (An additional factor, of course, is where the yarn feeder to be used is located.)
    5. Increase on edge?  Yes, this is possible.
    6. I've had no luck doing an increase in the middle of the row without forming an eyelet.  The split stitch would solve this, I believe.
    7. After pausing the machine, I've tried 'hand manipulating' by using a spare needle to catch a 'heel' from an adjoining needle to hand transfer to an empty needle.  I gave up after many tries - it is hard!!
    8. I've seen e-wrapped increases in books on machine knitting on domestic machines.  I haven't tried it yet on the Kniterate, but it is on my to do list.  Has anyone else done this?
    9. Using every other needle does afford added flexibility, but I can't immediately see how it would enable increases without the dreaded eyelet.
    10. I've tried using a half step rack to sneak in a single new stitch mid row in the back, while also knitting on all of the needles in the front.  I subsequently shifted half the front row stitches over by one needle (using a combination of transfers and racks) to make a gap for the new stitch, which is then transferred from back to front into the gap.  However, this still produces an eyelet, because that new stitch is not anchored to the row below.
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  • plasmatopia

    The code for my Valentine heart gives an example of how to get knits and tucks on the same row - the heart itself is stockinette/single jersey, while the background is brioche/cardigan stitch. This is a two color design, where only the white yarn (blue in pattern view) combines knits and tucks on the same row.  Each row of the white yarn is staggered over several "rows" in the Design App, so that the carriage direction reverses several times as each white row is knitted. The "trick" is a strategically placed transfer or single stitch on a row by itself in the cases where the carriage is going the "wrong" way.  In the case of the single stitch, the result will be a twisted stitch at the transition between knit and tuck zones for the white yarn.

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  • mark

    So, here are my uninformed speculation.   If we are knitting all one the front bed, we could knit one loop on the back.  If on edge, just rack, transfer back to front.  If in middle, transfer needles on one side of gap front to back, rack, and then transfer back to front, including new needle?  Does that work, or create a huge mess waiting to unravel?

    Just don't trust simple.

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  • OJ

    plasmatopia I'd love to hear your "trick" for knits and tucks on the same row and same bed. 

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  • OJ

    plasmatopia Thank you! This is great! I'm almost getting it. :) I have a couple questions:

    1. Which direction is the carriage going on the rows marked by the green stars (below)?
    2. Do you think you could replace the single twisted stitch with a single tuck? You'd need to add the knit to the row above or below. Not that the twisted stitch bothers me, I'm just trying to get a better understanding.

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  • plasmatopia

    OJ The rows you starred in green are red yarn rows in the photo, seen in yellow in Pattern view.  Because these rows use a different feeder than the other rows (white yarn), the compiler has some independence in choosing carriage direction for these rows.  The carriage direction for the red rows will alternate, so of the two you starred, the carriage will go to the right for one and to the left for the other.  To answer your question about which direction specifically the carriage goes on the two respective rows, I would have to look at the kcode - there is no way to tell from what we can see in the Design App.  However, since the red yarn is not mixing knit and tuck stitches on the same row and bed, my code doesn't rely on a particular carriage direction for those rows (unlike the white rows). 

    What you can't see in the Design App is that the carriage can move *without feeders* from one edge of the knitted piece to the other.  The compiler inserts "carriage reposition" rows that move the carriage from one edge to the other without a feeder (and therefore also without knitting) in order to pick up the feeder it needs.  Due to this feature, once a white row has been knitted, the subsequent red row will start from whichever edge the feeder is waiting at.  Likewise, after the red row has been knitted, "carriage reposition" can be used again by the compiler to send the carriage to the other edge, if needed, to pick up where it left off with the white yarn.

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  • mark

    plasmatopia

    Thank you so much for your detailed responses.  Can't wait to enter parts of your designs and stare at the k-code.  It should help me get much more comfortable with both the k-code and the design app.  Hoping to get rid of that awkward feeling I currently have in the design app.

    I'm grateful to learn that I had over generalize the rules regard simultaneous stitch and tuck, and how to play at the edge of the rule with a single stitch.

    Also great to hear that "split" may arrive in the future, with any luck before my machine is delivered.

    Well lots to learn, thanks again for your answers and examples.

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  • plasmatopia

    OJ I forgot to answer your question about whether you could make that transition row with a single tuck stitch rather than a single knit stitch.  This is a good question and I can't remember if I tried it before or not.  It would be a very easy experiment - just shift the transition over one stitch.  I'll  give it a try!

    (In code for another project, I was able to eliminate the twisted stitch by putting stitch transfers in that transition row.)

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  • OJ

    plasmatopia Thank you. Understood. Compiler will have the carriage pick up the second color wherever it is! I forgot about that.

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  • OJ

    plasmatopia Which row are you calling the "transition" row?

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  • plasmatopia

    @OJ By transition row, I was referring to the row with a single stitch dividing the knit zone (inside the heart) from the tuck zone (outside the heart) - the ones where I put red arrows for carriage direction in the diagram.  

    I just tried your suggestion by modifying the code in the design app so that it is a tuck stitch that gets twisted in the transition row rather than a knit stitch.  I did not get any compiler errors with the modified version and the kcode looks fine too.  I haven't tried running the kcode on the machine yet, but I am optimistic that it will work after seeing the kcode.

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  • OJ

    plasmatopia Oh, I get it! Thank you!

    I was thinking that the tuck wouldn't twist; that maybe a tuck wouldn't really form since it wouldn't have supporting stitches in that row. It could be an easy way to reposition the carriage without going into the kcode.

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  • Robert Ingemarsson

    this is sooo cool 

    More things to today and get our heads around

    Thank you so much for the detailed explanation 

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